Socialism or capitalism?

[Zaxer]

 

[Octavian]

same

I do agree with you in some cases. Although here in Sweden we've had socialism that ruled for over 50 years, and we were under that time one of the richest countries in the world, with some of the lowest rate of unemployment. Corruption was never a problem, but I can see that it easily can become one is many countries around the world.

Same here in Romania , communism was a good thing , besides the bad thing that it had .you can not speak of socialism if you haven't experienced it. Since democracy come in, my country is a colony , an entire genocid is taking place against it.

Media no longer plays an important role to make you smarter , capitalism want you to be stupid so they can make you a slave . a stupid slave which accept his condition . the only thing that keeps my country alive is that people have earth, they own the land, many sold it , but still there are those who continue to work it unfortunately this system is doing everything to force you sell it without land to grow you're food and a house you're nothing . You're just a slave to taxes .

anyway during monarchy we've experienced the richest times .

ps " funny is that in the last years the Noble for lecture/books went to ex communist countries . =))) why ? because people cared about education during those times .

 

[mynth]

as long as people are self-sufficient and own there own land and houses, capitalism is best with private charities. When society decides to build a manufacture base though, you need to go for socialism, because it would be too risky to pick a specialized trade under full liability for your livelihood. Third stage would be when human capital is starting to become less needed, then you must have a more communistic society, where the state deems what you are liable for, because it can no longer be measured by how useful you are. Last stage is a technocracy.

Well the technocracy is around the corner, but those who are in power think they need to cull the heard a bit first though, unfortunately. The world has been under communism, for the elites, disguised as varying degrees of socialism for the slaves.

This is just a partial picture though. The whole truth can only be understood through a perspective that is not of the natural mind/world.

 

[Zaxer]

as long as people are self-sufficient and own there own land and houses, capitalism is best with private charities. When society decides to build a manufacture base though, you need to go for socialism, because it would be too risky to pick a specialized trade under full liability for your livelihood. Third stage would be when human capital is starting to become less needed, then you must have a more communistic society, where the state deems what you are liable for, because it can no longer be measured by how useful you are. Last stage is a technocracy.

Well the technocracy is around the corner, but those who are in power think they need to cull the heard a bit first though, unfortunately. The world has been under communism, for the elites, disguised as varying degrees of socialism for the slaves.

This is just a partial picture though. The whole truth can only be understood through a perspective that is not of the natural mind/world.

In no society would this be 100% possible.
In my head, there are some things that I am more than willing to pay for with taxes: Education, healthcare, police & fire department etc.
The reason for this is that I don't want to live in a country full of sick, stupid people that turn to criminal activity due to bad police department.

That's why I'd rather live in a socialistic society than in a capitalistic one. Everyone should start with the same possibilities, but then what you make of the situation is in your hands.

 

[Minupi]

Capitalism, of course. Our capitalistic society, has gone further and made discoveries, that no one could ever have imagined. Capitalism has worked for us in the past, it works now and it will do in the future aswell. Which is more than you can say for communism or extreme socialism - we can see through history that it is doomed to fail. While Capitalism might not be the optimal ideology, it has still helped ensuring world peace and much more.
Sharing is caring, true. But we will never be able to share everything we have. I lust for power, so do many others.

The poorer is getting poorer and the richer is getting richer. Is an untrue statement. Whilst the richer are infact getting richer, the poor is aswell.
I believe in expertism, two different human beings cannot do the same and are not qualified to do the same anyhow. I also believe that some humans are born under conditions, which has made them able to evolve and expand their knowledgebase quicker and to a bigger extent, than the rest of world.

Speaking of corruption is just silly, if you live in the west or the U.S. I get so tired of hearing the same over and over again.. The system is corrupt, it suits the rich. Blah. No the system is not corrupt, we are the system. If you do not want the current government, then make sure 51% of the population does not want it aswell and it will change. The rich have made their own money, it is very unlikely that the 1% richest of the worlds population made their money through ilegalities.

Every human starts with the same tools, his/hers hands, feet and head. Even a poor person can build his/hers own future.

 

[Zaxer]

Capitalism, of course. Our capitalistic society, has gone further and made discoveries, that no one could ever have imagined. Capitalism has worked for us in the past, it works now and it will do in the future aswell. Which is more than you can say for communism or extreme socialism - we can see through history that it is doomed to fail. While Capitalism might not be the optimal ideology, it has still helped ensuring world peace and much more.
Sharing is caring, true. But we will never be able to share everything we have. I lust for power, so do many others.

The poorer is getting poorer and the richer is getting richer. Is an untrue statement. Whilst the richer are infact getting richer, the poor is aswell.
I believe in expertism, two different human beings cannot do the same and are not qualified to do the same anyhow. I also believe that some humans are born under conditions, which has made them able to evolve and expand their knowledgebase quicker and to a bigger extent, than the rest of world.

Speaking of corruption is just silly, if you live in the west or the U.S. I get so tired of hearing the same over and over again.. The system is corrupt, it suits the rich. Blah. No the system is not corrupt, we are the system. If you do not want the current government, then make sure 51% of the population does not want it aswell and it will change. The rich have made their own money, it is very unlikely that the 1% richest of the worlds population made their money through ilegalities.

Every human starts with the same tools, his/hers hands, feet and head. Even a poor person can build his/hers own future.

I respect your opinions but I disagree. Your entire argument falls apart in your last sentence, where you say everyone are born with the same resources. Some people are born with nothing, and socialism gives those people a chance. Sure, if you blow your chance because your lazy then maybe you don't deserve another one, but people who are born sick or poor should have the same access to education as all others do.

You also say that while the rich people get richer, poor people do as well. This is not true, and even if it was, that would only result in inflation.

 

[Warrior94]

Capitalism= crap

Look USA, China, England, Spain, Germany... in this countrys, the money is more important than the people.

Examples:
- USA kill in other countrys for money and oil. The black and hispan poblation is more poor just for their skin color since many years.
- Chineses are slaves of their own state. Work 20 hours by the face of multinationals owners.
- In Spain, the people is more poor every time, and have an state pro-fascist and monarchy of thieves. The spanish bank destroy lives for the capital. A new spanish civil war is coming.

All for the fucking money

- - - Updated - - -

eight years of crysis, and the occidental society (europeans & USA) don´t understand that the fucking problem is the dammned money.

 

[Vozho]

Capitalism= crap

Look USA, China, England, Spain, Germany... in this countrys, the money is more important than the people.
............
eight years of crysis, and the occidental society (europeans & USA) don´t understand that the fucking problem is the dammned money.

Well you got some point there,problem is that money is more important than people.

Corruption is usually the biggest problem.
I would go with either a third system,or a mixture.Pure socialism and pure capitalism are not a way to go.Not everything should be privatized,but then again,you shouldn't give 50% or more to your country.Imagine if you privatize all education.That would suck. But then again,you shouldn't be equaled with all bums in your country.
I think ideal would be to have a mixture,and good democracy is also important.

Budgets for different stuff should be strictly separated(for more decentralization) and publicly known(it IS in most countries,that's ok),but maybe people should be able to vote for some more stuff,like,what percent of budget should go to something,like healthcare or military.It shouldn't be mandatory,only if you want to vote.That would drastically increase democracy index in that country.

Or for example,in your bills,taxes,maybe it should say how much of it will go where.Say,you pay income tax,and it says:"15% of this goes to the healthcare system".

The problem with communism is the "cult of personality".Why does every communist country have this?

One interesting quote:

 

[Minupi]

I respect your opinions but I disagree. Your entire argument falls apart in your last sentence, where you say everyone are born with the same resources. Some people are born with nothing, and socialism gives those people a chance. Sure, if you blow your chance because your lazy then maybe you don't deserve another one, but people who are born sick or poor should have the same access to education as all others do.

You also say that while the rich people get richer, poor people do as well. This is not true, and even if it was, that would only result in inflation.

No, my entire argument does not fall apart. Everyone starts with the same tools, now that was grammaticaly incorrect, I of course meant: everyone starts with tools which are alike one anothers. I did at no point in my post state, that everyone starts with equal resources.
I got no problem with giving people a chance, I have a problem with extreme socialism e.g. communism.

Rich people do get richer and so does poor people, which is also the reason behind our current raising inflation. The economy is inflating, if that is even a verb.

Capitalism= crap

Look USA, China, England, Spain, Germany... in this countrys, the money is more important than the people.

Examples:
- USA kill in other countrys for money and oil. The black and hispan poblation is more poor just for their skin color since many years.
- Chineses are slaves of their own state. Work 20 hours by the face of multinationals owners.
- In Spain, the people is more poor every time, and have an state pro-fascist and monarchy of thieves. The spanish bank destroy lives for the capital. A new spanish civil war is coming.

All for the fucking money

- - - Updated - - -

eight years of crysis, and the occidental society (europeans & USA) don´t understand that the fucking problem is the dammned money.

China is a communistic country. Spain currently have the highest unemployment rate, I think alongside Greece. Imagine if all of these people were to recieve care, which they do. It is a huge expense. The general idea behind capitalism and liberalism is that it increases competetion and inspires people to think outside the box and thus create more jobs. This have worked for us in the past, it works for us now. Communism has not worked in the past and it does not work now, oh well, China is an increasing economic power.
A new spanish civil war is not coming, where do you even get these sort of stories from...
USA killing for oil? Do you know how much money wars cost?

@Vozho
The person whom you quoted, where does he get this from, what are his proof?
As I see it only the last setence can be related to any kind of statistics of events around the world.

 

[Zaxer]

No, my entire argument does not fall apart. Everyone starts with the same tools, now hat was grammaticaly incorrect, I of course everyone starts with tools which are alike one anothers. I did at no point in my post state, that everyone starts with equal resources.
I got no problem with giving people a chance, I have a problem with extreme socialism e.g. communism.

Rich people do get richer and so does poor people, which is also the reason behind our current raising inflation. The economy is inflating, if that is even a verb.

And you're wrong again man, are you telling me that someone born in Ethiopia living in a mud house started off with the same resources as you did? You're sitting by a damn computer while they are trying to find water dude, think again.

Yes, the economy is inflating but let me tell you it is not because the poor are getting richer.

And we're not talking about extreme socialism or communism so why bring that up even?

 

[Minupi]

And you're wrong again man, are you telling me that someone born in Ethiopia living in a mud house started off with the same resources as you did? You're sitting by a damn computer while they are trying to find water dude, think again.

Yes, the economy is inflating but let me tell you it is not because the poor are getting richer.

And we're not talking about extreme socialism or communism so why bring that up even?

You are misunderstanding me. I do not say they start off with the same resources I did, of course they do not.
You just said it would cause inflation yourself. Not going to be personal here but please do not contradict your own statements.
Of course we are talking about communism, which is the foundation of socialism, we are talking politics and we are stating positives and negatives of each, if we were not talking the extreme left or right wings, how could we state these positives & negatives? We would keep returning to the "a mix of both is the best way".

 

[Vozho]

The person whom you quoted, where does he get this from, what are his proof?
As I see it only the last setence can be related to any kind of statistics of events around the world.

That guy is a famous journalist,travelled a lot,he didn't get it from one source

 

[_IKESTER_]

Both Socialism and or capitalism is a fail. It leaves the people of these country's at the mercy of the goverment and or the rich. And history has taught us all goverment's are corrupted at some point.

 

[Zaxer]

Both Socialism and or capitalism is a fail. It leaves the people of these country's at the mercy of the goverment and or the rich. And history has taught us all goverment's are corrupted at some point.

What ideology would you prefer? Communism or anarchy, or something in between?

 

[Sincres]

What ideology would you prefer? Communism or anarchy, or something in between?

Obviously one of the two because in between is socialism or capitalism so it has to be communism or anarchy

 

[Zaxer]

Obviously one of the two because in between is socialism or capitalism so it has to be communism or anarchy

Maybe he believes in fascism?

 

[_IKESTER_]

I live in the u.s i like democracy. we have a choice its not made by communist govs or socialist govs..

 

[maziu1234]

terrorism

 

[Zaxer]

I live in the u.s i like democracy. we have a choice its not made by communist govs or socialist govs..

Then you're a liberal capitalist?

 

[Yogg-Saron]

Capitalism is everywhere.